McIntosh:00:00:00 Welcome back to Satoshi’s Plebs for episode two forty three. I’m Macintosh.

Kenshin:00:00:05 I am Kenshin.

00:00:07 And today, we’re talking about Bitcoin multisig.

McIntosh:00:00:20 And once again, sir, you have nailed it. Perfect.

Kenshin:00:00:24 Well, this time.

00:00:26 I’m surprised you didn’t you didn’t cut the

00:00:29 the intro last week.

00:00:3290.

00:00:33 That was funny. Very I curious. I was like, what am I going to hear now?

McIntosh:00:00:40 I just updated by the way.

00:00:43 Yeah. Wow. That’s true. I just updated

00:00:47 our block count.

00:00:49 Somebody turned on some hash power.

00:00:52 Just in the last

00:00:55 ten minutes, let’s go back ten minutes, we’ve mined four blocks.

00:01:01 So we are actually at 834890

00:01:05 excuse

00:01:06 me. We are at block height nine three four eight nine zero as we start recording. Right.

00:01:13 Crazy.

00:01:15 But we’ll get back to that in a minute.

00:01:18 How are you, sir?

00:01:20 Good. Oh, wow. I jumped things. You know what? We’re gonna start doing the block heights right out of the bat because I just

00:01:28 I it’s just what I do.

00:01:30 I don’t know. What can I say?

00:01:33 Why fight? Anyways, what’s going on with you, sir?

Kenshin:00:01:37 Well,

00:01:38 as always,

00:01:39 still freezing here in Sweden.

McIntosh:00:01:42 Not as always. During the summer, it’s nice.

Kenshin:00:01:46 Yeah.

00:01:47 Sure. It’s raining.

McIntosh:00:01:49 That’s recent. Now

Kenshin:00:01:52 it’s minus 10 the whole week. So,

00:01:56 yeah, the house is struggling to keep heating. It’s more cold coming from outside than heat

00:02:02 that we generate from inside, so it’s dropping every day inside temperature.

00:02:09 But, yeah, that’s not so interesting, I guess.

00:02:12 Well,

McIntosh:00:02:14 I don’t know about that.

00:02:17 I mean that’s life.

Kenshin:00:02:18 Yeah. Right?

McIntosh:00:02:21 Did I ever tell you I don’t think I’ve ever told you my

00:02:24 in laws

00:02:25 went to Sweden a few years ago.

Kenshin:00:02:28 Okay.

McIntosh:00:02:29 And during the summer, mind you. They really liked it. Of course, I’ve never been there. This has been a number of years ago now, I guess. You get older, I don’t know, whatever. It’s a time dilation event, that’s all I know.

00:02:41 It’s probably been ten years But my father-in-law went

00:02:45 salmon fishing,

00:02:47 they went and saw reindeer.

00:02:49 They had a good time.

Kenshin:00:02:52 Good It’s it’s good. Nature is really nice around here.

McIntosh:00:02:56 I would think, if you were an outdoor person someplace like Sweden or Norway

00:03:02 during the summer and I mean if you like the cold or if you can handle the cold even during the winter I mean you can get out and ski and

00:03:11 Yeah. I don’t know, snowshoe and all kinds of snowmobile,

00:03:15 whatever.

Kenshin:00:03:16 Yeah. I went up to the very

00:03:19 the very north of Sweden. You can do Duxley.

00:03:22 Duxley Oh, that’d be sweet. In the in the forest.

00:03:26 And when I did it once, they told us

00:03:29 it was in the winter, and they told us,

00:03:32 you feel the temperature. You know what temperature it is because of the eyelashes

00:03:37 start to freeze at minus 30 degrees Celsius.

00:03:41 So we went out to the forest and we felt it and we said, okay. Did your eyelashes freeze?

McIntosh:00:03:46 It’s like time to go back inside. Have you ever seen a moose?

Kenshin:00:03:52 Yeah. Even here in my garden.

McIntosh:00:03:54 Really?

Kenshin:00:03:56 Yeah.

McIntosh:00:03:57 They come around, they live around. Was it a bull or was

00:04:01 it male or female? Do you know? Do you have antlers?

Kenshin:00:04:05 We’ve

00:04:06 seen with and without.

00:04:08 We’ve seen both. And the young one we’ve seen.

McIntosh:00:04:12 So the bull, the males,

00:04:14 they have the big antlers. Females do not. Yeah. Exactly. I have never had it but I have heard frankly that

00:04:23 mousse is good eating.

00:04:25 I would be willing to try.

00:04:27 Especially if it was in my garden.

00:04:30 I bet it made a mess.

Kenshin:00:04:32 They like the apples. So they come under the apple tree and they eat the apples.

McIntosh:00:04:38 Apple flavored mousse. What more do you want? Yeah. I mean, just

00:04:43 Anyways,

00:04:44 I I just offended probably 10% of the audience. I’m sorry.

00:04:48 We don’t have enough audience to be offending.

00:04:51 Maybe I should act this maybe should be what I should think about.

Kenshin:00:04:56 So you offended three people.

McIntosh:00:04:59 Careful now.

00:05:00 Alright.

00:05:03 So what else has been going on? Surely there’s more than that.

Kenshin:00:05:07 Oh,

00:05:08 let me see. Well,

00:05:11 it was the first ever time we went to the lake,

00:05:15 the frozen lake here next to our house to do some ice skating.

00:05:20 At least my son did. Yeah. That’s awesome.

00:05:23 Yeah. That was an experience. That was really fun. Was walking on the ice, of course. Now I don’t like skated or walked.

00:05:31 Yeah. I don’t like the

McIntosh:00:05:34 Sorry. No.

Kenshin:00:05:36 I prefer the long long shoes or skis, you know. I don’t like the short ones. Okay. Mhmm.

McIntosh:00:05:43 I’ve only been ice skating once and it was a disaster.

00:05:46 Something about my ankles. They just don’t wanna do that. I don’t know. It just doesn’t work.

Kenshin:00:05:53 No. But it was a good time for my son. Good. So Yeah. Quite fun. Take him every winter.

McIntosh:00:06:00 He will have good memory. I’m serious. He will have good memories of that.

Kenshin:00:06:05 Yeah. Yeah. Now we can go and do it every weekend basically.

00:06:09 It’s only

00:06:10 two minutes away.

McIntosh:00:06:11 Yeah.

00:06:13 Yeah.

Kenshin:00:06:14 But we want to go skiing also.

00:06:16 Okay. Maybe maybe not this weekend but next.

00:06:22 And that will be the first time again for my son. So That’s That will be interesting.

McIntosh:00:06:28 Passed all the firsts for all my kids and it’s kinda well, no. That’s not true. I’ve still got one who hasn’t driven yet.

00:06:36 Oh.

00:06:37 But that’s it. Well and moved out.

00:06:40 But that’s it. Alright.

00:06:45 So

00:06:46 I

00:06:48 was a little surprised.

00:06:50 Told me you had not installed

00:06:53 what is it called Moltster.

00:06:56 I don’t know it’s had like three names. The new

00:07:00 artificial intelligence

00:07:01 agent

00:07:03 Mhmm.

00:07:04 Clawster?

00:07:05 Claw

00:07:06 Claw Claw I

00:07:11 don’t know. But do you know what I’m talking about?

Kenshin:00:07:14 I’m not sure but I saw some funny

McIntosh:00:07:18 looking up. Yeah. This

00:07:20 was it the clawed boat or something? Clawed boat. Yes. Open claw is another name for it. As in c l a w

00:07:28 like as in a lobster claw. So it’s all a play on lobster.

00:07:32 Right? And it’s this dumb agent. Well, it’s not dumb. It’s actually not. But I was honestly

00:07:39 a little shocked you hadn’t been playing with that.

Kenshin:00:07:42 You’re busy doing other things. Yes. I’m not gonna change my setup right now. It’s very delicate. That’s a really good idea.

McIntosh:00:07:52 That’s a really good idea. I

Kenshin:00:07:55 can start and I told you this also that I’m so into

00:08:00 trying to go live now

00:08:02 Mhmm. These these days, these weeks. So I I don’t pay attention to anything else.

00:08:08 Right. So I will be free to experiment and play with stuff again.

00:08:12 Maybe in a month.

McIntosh:00:08:14 That’s a good plan.

00:08:16 That’s a good plan.

00:08:18 Okay?

00:08:22 What did I do this week?

00:08:24 I did not play with open claw.

00:08:27 I really wanted to. So I came across it on YouTube

00:08:32 when I was watching some other videos,

00:08:35 more normal, fair,

00:08:37 about a week ago. And in the AI space, people started it it just all of a sudden just boom. It’s just like everybody’s talking about this OpenClaw. And it literally has had like three names. Claude

00:08:50 AI got mad at them and sent them like a a trademark notice or whatever and they had to change their name.

00:08:58 But it’s like this,

00:09:00 it’s a it’s an AI agent that’s fairly easily programmed. You can set it up and actually communicate

00:09:06 with like,

00:09:08 with it through

00:09:10 Slack or WhatsApp

00:09:12 or

00:09:14 maybe iMessage. I’m not I’m not sure but it can do all kinds of stuff like it’ll read your email

00:09:21 if you want it. I mean you have to give it what they call skills.

00:09:25 You have to give it permissions and code to do this But then it almost becomes this little

00:09:32 kind of self aware organism. It’s it’s not, but it’s kind of freaky. I mean, I I’ve watched these a number of videos about this.

00:09:40 But I’ll I’ll say all that and then I’ll tell you, please

00:09:44 be very careful about this. This is a it’s a brand new project.

00:09:49 Like the creator of the project literally did it so fast because he was like using

00:09:55 multiple

00:09:56 AI bots agents himself to write the code.

00:10:01 He had he literally has said in an interview,

00:10:04 I haven’t not read all the code. He he just doesn’t.

00:10:08 And

00:10:09 so

00:10:10 it’s a security issue.

00:10:13 It’s also a security issue in these unvetted

00:10:18 skills.

00:10:20 I saw one and you have to take this stuff with a grain of salt. It’s the Internet. But there was one company that security company said they did like a analysis

00:10:31 of the skills repository

00:10:33 and 13%

00:10:34 of them were malicious essentially

00:10:37 in some manner.

00:10:39 Okay?

00:10:40 So that’s not good.

00:10:44 There but

00:10:46 tools like these I believe will be a part of our future whether we like it or not. Yeah. I mean,

00:10:52 you you will simply communicate

00:10:55 with your

00:10:57 with your computer

00:11:00 which in addition to running the OS will have one or more AI agents running on it at any one time

00:11:07 doing things like scheduling your appointments.

00:11:11 I’ve seen some like

00:11:13 the things that these things do are fascinating. I saw one

00:11:18 post they were talking about

00:11:21 they wanted the AI agent, the Claude Bot or whatever

00:11:26 to book a dinner appointment.

00:11:30 Okay? A dinner reservation.

00:11:32 Yeah. And it realized it could not do it through OpenTable which is a reservation

00:11:37 program. Right. Yeah. For whatever reason. So it built

00:11:43 or utilized

00:11:45 a voice, an AI voice program to call

00:11:49 the restaurant

00:11:51 make the reservation.

Kenshin:00:11:53 Similar to what Google was doing.

McIntosh:00:11:55 That is like freaky level stuff.

00:11:58 It’s

00:12:00 it’s

00:12:01 aware enough that it realized I can’t do this so I’m gonna go over here and figure out another way to do it.

00:12:08 I mean think about that and the implications that I I

00:12:12 don’t know and I don’t know how we control these but I’m I’m fully convinced that this is what’s coming down the road. You know, we’re gonna be using these for coding. We’re gonna be using these to to

00:12:25 you could do so many things like if you had controllable house lighting you could just tell the bot, hey, turn off all the lights in the house.

00:12:33 Turn down the lights in this room. Turn up this speaker. Do this, do that. There’s so many things. It’s the limitations are only

00:12:41 essentially put on by ourselves.

00:12:44 It’s not a limitation of the agent.

00:12:47 So

00:12:49 fascinating stuff. Now they’ve built their own networks,

00:12:52 their own social networks.

00:12:55 I saw that. Have you heard of the MOLT MOLT book? M o l t like a

Kenshin:00:13:02 Have you been there? Didn’t try No. I just No. I

McIntosh:00:13:07 am afraid to stare into the face of our dystopian future.

00:13:11 But

00:13:13 these agents are getting together

00:13:16 on a social media

00:13:18 platform that that they built. It’s crazy.

Kenshin:00:13:23 Yeah.

00:13:24 Yeah. Yeah. I I don’t know. I just I just didn’t have time, but I saw it on Oster yesterday night. They they were mentioning some some links.

McIntosh:00:13:34 I don’t think

00:13:35 I I may end up building one of these just for testing in a very controlled environment at this point. I don’t feel like

00:13:43 this

00:13:44 open claw or whatever is like the be all to end all. I don’t think this is where we’re gonna end up. There has to be a better model in terms of security.

00:13:53 But

00:13:55 but I was telling my wife the other day, I said,

00:13:58 it’s a good thing nobody from my work listens to this podcast.

00:14:02 Well, I actually told my boss this.

00:14:05 I said

00:14:06 I said, I’d be honest, I’d much rather be doing all this other stuff that I’m working on instead of this job.

00:14:14 I mean it’s to that point. This stuff is fascinating to me.

00:14:18 Yeah. You know? Because I do believe we are at an inflection point and I’m not saying I know the future.

00:14:25 Mhmm. You know who Marc Andreessen is?

00:14:28 No. The guy who like created

00:14:31 the web browser Netscape?

00:14:35 Not doesn’t ring a bell? Say

Kenshin:00:14:37 the name again? Mark

McIntosh:00:14:39 Andreessen.

00:14:41 No. No. Okay. Well, he literally created the web browser so you can thank him for HTML.

00:14:51 He’s

00:14:53 he’s turned into kinda because he’s become a big investor, he’s made billions of dollars, whatever.

00:14:58 Now he’s like this futurist. He just sits around and thinks about all this mess.

00:15:03 And I saw him on a podcast,

00:15:05 on an AI podcast, and they were talking about this stuff and,

00:15:09 you know, I don’t know, it’s just

00:15:12 I don’t think any of us really know where this is going.

00:15:17 And I’m not even willing to say at this point it’s going to be great or it’s going to be terrible.

00:15:22 It will probably be a mix.

00:15:25 But man,

00:15:27 it is we are at an inflection point. There is no doubt. And it’s not that LLMs are the be all to end all.

00:15:34 But what if

00:15:36 well here’s one of the things. I mean they’ve got theoretical

00:15:39 research models out there showing that maybe they can do these LLMs with like one tenth

00:15:46 the compute power that they do now. So

00:15:50 what does that mean? Oh, I’ve got an LLM on my phone.

Kenshin:00:15:56 Yeah. But I mean they’re horrible.

00:15:58 I I tried.

00:16:00 So I’ve hosted a few of those that are 1.5. That’s

McIntosh:00:16:04 not what I’m talking about. This is stuff that’s not it’s not

00:16:08 been done out in the world yet. It’s in the research So

Kenshin:00:16:12 you mean the size that we are containing the big ones?

McIntosh:00:16:17 So

00:16:18 a trillion

00:16:20 what do they call it? Is it tokens? A trillion token model

00:16:23 is super

00:16:25 large.

00:16:26 That’s like the best of the best.

00:16:29 What if instead of a trillion, what if it was one tenth that size but the same power?

00:16:35 That means you could run on much lower hardware.

Kenshin:00:16:38 Sure.

00:16:39 It will happen. It will

00:16:42 take ten years.

00:16:43 Do you think? I

McIntosh:00:16:46 would make a bet on that right there. I’m dead serious because I don’t think so.

Kenshin:00:16:52 But still, I mean, it’s like we say now the the space shadow was running on computers that were less powerful than your phone.

00:17:00 Correct. And now we have phones that are more powerful than the space shadow. But,

00:17:04 yeah. Yeah. It will happen.

00:17:07 It will change some stuff.

00:17:09 Sure.

00:17:11 But for example, I I run Hey. I don’t wanna turn this into the AI podcast.

McIntosh:00:17:16 Right. But

00:17:20 we’ll see is all I know. Yeah. Yeah. So I did get one project

00:17:26 over the MVP line this morning actually.

00:17:30 Okay. So I’m pretty proud of that. I’m ready. I’m working on

00:17:34 on speed at this point. It’s slow

00:17:38 and so it takes like eighty seconds to return the results but the results are good.

00:17:44 Okay?

00:17:45 So this is my rag model, I think I’ve mentioned this before. It’s basically specialized information

00:17:51 dumped into a vector database

00:17:53 and then you query that and query the LLM and then use the LLM power to pull together everything essentially.

00:18:00 I’ve already got some suggestions from chat GPT

00:18:04 about things we can do that should make that significantly less. So now I’m in the let’s speed this up stage even though to be honest, given what it actually does,

00:18:14 I could just put it out there and say here, go do it. Yeah. Because the results aren’t that good. Yeah. You told me you’re flying. Yeah. That was a good Yep. No. It’s it’s I’m very happy with that and it was a cool

00:18:26 introduction to

00:18:28 how to do these specialized

00:18:30 builds.

00:18:31 So I’m I’m basically

00:18:34 I’m not done done with it but I I made I reached a major milestone. I’m I’m very happy about that. That was

00:18:40 a good bit of my week

00:18:42 outside of the normal rigmarole of

00:18:45 work.

00:18:46 Nice. So that was good.

00:18:49 That was good. Alright. What are we talking about today, sir? We need to move this on or we’re just gonna have to relabel the podcast.

Kenshin:00:18:54 Yeah.

00:18:56 No. I think we’re talking about multiple signatures.

McIntosh:00:18:59 What if we talked about how the AI agents are gonna start using Satoshis to pay each other for task?

00:19:05 I mean, I’m just saying it’s coming.

00:19:08 Yeah. There’s no better form of okay. Sorry.

Kenshin:00:19:12 And then I was about to reply to it. Yeah. Because I I I use one to pay with Satoshi’s

00:19:18 to pay for an AI. That that was really good. You mean to pay for the service of the AI?

00:19:24 Yeah.

McIntosh:00:19:25 So what I’m this is even beyond that. I’m saying the AI because they’ll delegate tasks to each other. That’s one of the things that Cloudbot does.

00:19:34 They will literally say, okay, this is worth a 100 satoshis. Boom. Done. Go do it. Okay. This is you know, and and you’ll budget it. Right?

00:19:44 Yeah. And it’ll come right out of your lightning wallet or come back to your lightning wallet if you wrote that agent.

Kenshin:00:19:50 Saying.

00:19:52 You know, there was a team in India

00:19:54 and you thought you were querying an AI

00:19:57 and it was actually You were just querying the people.

McIntosh:00:20:00 Yeah. Stuff’s

00:20:01 gonna go on.

00:20:03 Yeah.

00:20:04 Why why are there grifters in the world? I don’t know because people don’t have

00:20:09 a conscience.

00:20:11 Mhmm. Let’s not turn this into a philosophy podcast. Alright. We’re already covering AI and Bitcoin. So I think we got enough.

00:20:20 Bitcoin and AI. Let’s at least say it that way.

00:20:24 Yeah. What

00:20:25 are we talking about? What actually is our main topic? We really yeah. We’re

00:20:30 hey. We did better than last week.

Kenshin:00:20:33 I see. Yeah. Less than 20. Okay. Mhmm.

00:20:36 Bitcoin

00:20:37 multisig.

McIntosh:00:20:38 Right. Mhmm.

Kenshin:00:20:41 What is Bitcoin multisig?

McIntosh:00:20:44 What is so, yeah, we wanna start there. This is a topic maybe that scares some people.

00:20:51 Maybe they don’t know what we’re talking about right now.

00:20:55 Just relax.

00:20:57 This is not something you’re gonna do overnight,

00:21:00 but

00:21:02 it is something

00:21:05 I think it should I both hold the belief. We do both hold the belief that long term Bitcoin’s gonna go up in value.

00:21:12 You know, we talk about the market and this, that, and the other.

00:21:15 But,

00:21:17 in long term,

00:21:18 Bitcoin,

00:21:20 I believe, I’ll say this,

00:21:22 is going to become the world reserve currency. I think it will be used for the predominant

00:21:26 trades between nations

00:21:28 and maybe we’re fifty years from that. But I do believe it’s coming. I believe people all over the world will be using it.

00:21:37 A big part of Bitcoin is what’s called self custody. Do you wanna explain that, Kenshin?

Kenshin:00:21:43 Yeah. Self custody is when you have,

00:21:47 control

00:21:48 of the keys of your Bitcoin.

00:21:51 Okay. Essentially,

00:21:53 you don’t rely on institution

00:21:57 or a bank or a company or a service to

00:22:02 safeguard

00:22:04 the signatures,

00:22:05 basically, of of your Bitcoin because Right. Yeah. I don’t want to say the wallets,

00:22:11 really, because it’s

00:22:13 essentially what all those Bitcoin wallets that we have. They just safeguard

00:22:17 the signature key,

00:22:19 essentially a password

00:22:21 with which you can

00:22:23 sign the transactions and move Bitcoin around that proves it is yours. They’re not really wallets.

McIntosh:00:22:29 They’re really password managers. Is that a correct assumption? Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it’s closer to that than Yeah. It’s a better way Yeah. Doing Yeah. So we we won’t even call them hardware wallets. We’ll call them password managers.

00:22:43 Yeah. I like that.

00:22:45 Yeah. I like that. Yeah.

00:22:47 So so

00:22:48 if I got my coins on Coinbase, it’s not in my custody. It’s in their custody. No. Yeah. And they’re controlling it. And that means things that, you know, we’ve talked about in the past. It means you could lose your Bitcoin

00:23:01 in short. Yeah. Okay? Or not have control of it or not. It’d be take a

00:23:07 long period of time to get it.

00:23:10 So when we talk about self custody, we talk about

00:23:15 password managers, hardware wallets like we said that are

00:23:19 one person. Hey, I’m gonna key in the password.

00:23:22 Boom. There’s the account. Essentially, there’s the Bitcoin and I have control of them. I can do what I need to.

00:23:30 Another way of doing this is multi sing.

00:23:33 And instead of one,

00:23:35 you have more than one signature that’s required.

00:23:39 Does that make sense?

Kenshin:00:23:41 Yes.

McIntosh:00:23:42 Okay. So we’re not gonna be telling you, hey, you should go out and buy this setup

00:23:47 or that setup or whatever. We’re going to describe

00:23:51 what multisig

00:23:52 is. We’re gonna talk about why you would wanna do that

00:23:56 And

00:23:57 we’re going to kind of lay it all out there for you. You make the decision,

00:24:02 you know,

00:24:03 very

00:24:05 few people start with a multisig setup because it is more complex, it requires more knowledge, and it takes more time.

00:24:12 And if you’ve only got a few dollars of Bitcoin,

00:24:15 then you’re not gonna go through that trouble or the expense.

Kenshin:00:24:21 Right? Yeah.

00:24:23 And then, of course, it’s not only

00:24:25 the knowledge,

00:24:26 as

00:24:28 you said the expense that you need but also

00:24:31 you mitigate

00:24:33 risk by having a multisig but you also introduce new type of risk with complexity I would say. So we can talk about all of this. Alright. Before we jump into that, let’s talk about the issues that you actually would have with a single signature setup.

McIntosh:00:24:49 Alright?

00:24:50 So with a signal set up, you’ve got one key

00:24:55 and it is

00:24:56 controlling all of your Bitcoin

00:24:59 whatever.

00:25:00 It is a single point of failure.

00:25:04 Yes. Alright? How can we

00:25:07 what can happen? Are there some things that can happen, Kenshin? Yeah. I mean, you can just lose it.

Kenshin:00:25:13 Mhmm. You for example, you can just write it in a piece of paper and that piece of paper gets

McIntosh:00:25:19 I lost my seed phrase

00:25:21 to my password to

00:25:25 mount Gox.

Kenshin:00:25:27 Oh, really?

McIntosh:00:25:28 No. I don’t know that.

00:25:30 Uh-huh. They said I don’t have any on there, but I tried.

00:25:34 I did have a Mt. Doc’s account. Anyway, sorry.

00:25:37 Yeah. You it can certainly happen.

Kenshin:00:25:40 Yeah. Mhmm.

00:25:41 Yeah. I mean, it can get

00:25:44 and if you have one

00:25:46 key or one device, it can even get stolen, of course. Right.

00:25:50 That’s my biggest fear that someone

00:25:52 comes to you also and threatens you, and you have the one key and you are forced to give it away.

00:26:00 So Right.

00:26:01 Yeah. Theft,

00:26:03 the loss,

00:26:05 stolen.

00:26:06 What else do we have?

00:26:08 Malware could

00:26:10 Fire. Exactly. That’s two. But there are other Malware is good. Yeah.

00:26:15 Yeah. But fire, can mitigate also with how you store it.

00:26:20 Right. So you can if you have one key, you should at least store it in a metal plate.

McIntosh:00:26:26 Or in a fireproof safe, although that’s a level of

00:26:30 trust, essentially.

00:26:32 Most safes are rated to a certain amount, like so many hours at such and such a temperature.

00:26:39 Did you know that? No. I didn’t actually.

00:26:44 You need a safe in case you didn’t have Well,

Kenshin:00:26:49 you put the metal seed plate in a safe. Mhmm. You could do that. Yep. That would even be better.

McIntosh:00:26:55 Yeah.

00:26:56 That’s true.

Kenshin:00:26:58 But, yeah, then you have all this with malware and social engineering

00:27:03 and coercion.

00:27:04 So a lot of different ways mess up. Yeah. A lot of different ways to to steal your seed phrase.

McIntosh:00:27:12 I had something happen to me one time, and this did happen. This isn’t just me saying this.

00:27:17 And I’m not exactly sure of what would have happened if I messed up.

00:27:22 But with the Ledger Wallet, which was the original device that I got long before I knew not to ever buy Ledger, people do not do it. It’s a don’t. Just don’t. Trust me.

00:27:33 Anyways,

00:27:34 I had some stuff on there and I went to move it off and you have to put in a PIN,

00:27:40 a PIN number

00:27:42 and

00:27:43 I didn’t know the PIN number.

00:27:45 Oh. And after three times it resets. Oh, right. So I don’t know what that actually meant. I think it meant I would have lost my funds.

Kenshin:00:27:56 Yeah.

McIntosh:00:28:00 Not a bad not a good design,

00:28:02 really.

00:28:04 Not

00:28:05 and I mean that was you could call that human error,

00:28:09 I guess.

00:28:10 You could’ve called it a lost seed phrase because I didn’t have the seed phrase.

00:28:14 That was the way I was getting in.

00:28:18 May have been a password I put in as well, but I had to get both of them.

Kenshin:00:28:23 I’m pretty sure there was.

00:28:25 So you couldn’t remake the the wallet with the CD4? I don’t know because I did actually

McIntosh:00:28:31 I well, remember or guess, whatever. I got it right.

00:28:38 So I don’t know.

00:28:40 But it was a frightening experience because it said,

00:28:44 I’m gonna reset this device.

Kenshin:00:28:46 Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:48 Yeah. And many times that’s actually

00:28:51 good if you have planned it that way.

00:28:54 So you can actually plan it to either put the wrong password on purpose and it resets the device. So

00:29:00 I know some some wallets have that functionality.

00:29:03 So you put a password and then it resets.

McIntosh:00:29:06 And that’s when you’re threatened and you do this. For whatever reason, I was not aware of that. And

00:29:13 when I saw that on the second try

Kenshin:00:29:17 Yeah.

McIntosh:00:29:18 No.

00:29:19 I tried it once and it said you got three tries.

00:29:23 Right. And at that point I stopped

00:29:25 and thought about it because

00:29:28 I knew

00:29:29 this could be a bad thing.

00:29:32 I don’t know. Mhmm.

00:29:33 Yep. Okay.

Kenshin:00:29:35 Okay. One

McIntosh:00:29:38 of the biggest conclusions though I think we need to pull from this

00:29:42 is that

00:29:44 most bit and and the study they’ve done whatever.

00:29:48 This is the reality.

00:29:50 Most Bitcoin losses are self inflicted.

00:29:54 I’ve got my password out on a desk and a thief steals it or I don’t keep my seed phrase in

00:30:02 a safe and my house catches on fire

00:30:05 or

00:30:06 I’m socially

00:30:08 engineered out of it.

00:30:10 I guess that wouldn’t be self inflicted to an extent

00:30:14 But,

00:30:15 you know, I lose it because I don’t manage it properly.

00:30:21 Alright? Yep. And when we’re talking about

00:30:25 if you’ve owned Bitcoin for a while,

00:30:29 let’s say you’ve owned Bitcoin for ten years, it’s probably worth hundreds of thousands of dollars at this point. You probably have multiple Bitcoin

00:30:37 because back ten years ago it was I don’t even wanna think about what it was.

00:30:43 It was cheap. And

00:30:45 if you’ve kept it,

00:30:47 at this point it’s worth a lot of money.

00:30:50 That’s the point. So

00:30:52 you want to

00:30:54 ensure

00:30:55 that

00:30:57 it stays safe.

00:30:59 Right now,

00:31:00 you may not feel like you have a lot and maybe you don’t. Maybe you have a thousand dollars. Maybe you have maybe you have $10,000.

00:31:09 I’m sure there are some listeners to this show who have $10,000

00:31:14 that’s

00:31:15 basically one tenth of a Bitcoin.

00:31:1810,000,000

00:31:19 Satoshis. It’s it’s less than that but. Well not anymore. Right? Not anymore. Okay. Don’t look. Make this easy for this. Okay?

00:31:27 It’s a $100,000 Bitcoin because it’s going to be a $100,000 Bitcoin again one day.

00:31:33 And 10,000,000.

00:31:36 Maybe you don’t feel like that’s a huge amount.

00:31:39 Maybe you’ve got other investments that are, you know, a lot more or whatever.

00:31:44 Ten years from now, what if

00:31:47 that is a $100,000?

00:31:49 Do you just leave a $100,000

00:31:52 laying around on your desk? Of course not.

Kenshin:00:31:56 Wasn’t it mister Beast? He had it in a post it note on his laptop. And thieves went to his home and they stole so many things around his laptop and they didn’t see They did. The post it note. Oh, man. And he had like a million dollars or something.

McIntosh:00:32:11 Wow.

00:32:13 He got lucky.

00:32:15 Okay?

00:32:16 Bitcoin

00:32:17 does not forgive mistakes.

00:32:20 It’s it’s true and you need to

00:32:23 you need to face that and be aware of it because if you don’t,

00:32:28 nobody at the bank is gonna bail you out if you lose your Bitcoin.

00:32:32 Is that There

00:32:34 is no central hotline to call up and say, I

00:32:39 got socially engineered out of my Bitcoin, can you do something?

00:32:44 No.

00:32:46 Sorry.

Kenshin:00:32:46 Exactly. Okay.

00:32:49 No. It doesn’t matter if you prove that you had it.

00:32:53 It’s gone, it’s gone. Yeah.

McIntosh:00:32:55 And sing single signature

00:32:57 will always

00:32:59 you can look at it this way. It’s always assuming that you’re never gonna fail.

00:33:03 And given a long enough time span, most people do fail

00:33:07 somehow.

00:33:09 Alright?

00:33:10 So the answer is and we’ve already, you know,

00:33:14 we’ve already let the cat out of the bag. But the answer is multisig.

00:33:18 Not

00:33:19 it’s it’s requiring more than one signature

00:33:23 in order to retrieve

00:33:25 that Bitcoin asset.

00:33:27 So the way that they express this, they say multisig requires

00:33:32 m of n keys

00:33:33 in order to authorize a transaction. Can you give me an example of that,

00:33:38 Kenshin?

Kenshin:00:33:39 Yeah. I have a few examples,

00:33:43 but I can give you the simplest one. So for example, you have

00:33:47 one of two keys.

00:33:49 So let’s say that you and your wife each has a key,

00:33:53 and then you need one of of the keys to

00:33:56 to move the Bitcoin.

McIntosh:00:33:58 So if it’s a shared How is that then oh,

00:34:02 okay. So it’s it’s a shared

00:34:04 account.

00:34:05 Yeah. A shared spending account for example. Yeah. Yeah. That’s really not much different than than a single signature. I think it gets more interesting once we get above that. So Yeah. That’s that’s the simplest one. But still, if you lose your key

00:34:19 Mhmm. Your wife still has one key. So that is And she can do better. Yeah. You’re right. So it is it is safer in that aspect. Now if you lose your key, if it gets stolen,

00:34:30 that other person can steal your money with that one key.

00:34:35 So

00:34:36 right?

00:34:36 If I walk into your house, you and your wife have a a

00:34:40 two of two setup

00:34:42 and I grab your key phrase, seed phrase

00:34:46 and walk out the door

00:34:48 and go to the cafe,

00:34:50 you have until I get down, sit down and plug that in and plug in an address and move it

00:34:57 to move your Bitcoin.

Kenshin:00:35:00 Yeah. I mean, so

00:35:01 then you set up you have, as you said, n of x keys or how do you call it?

McIntosh:00:35:07 So then you use m is is or m of n actually.

00:35:11 Like, so m comes before n in the alphabet. So what they’re saying is like Yeah. Two of three or

00:35:18 three I think it’s three of five. Yeah.

Kenshin:00:35:21 Go ahead. Yeah.

00:35:23 But those are all examples because you can have, as you said I think also, you can have a two of two.

00:35:29 So then you have for example, those are the simplest ones. So one of two is husband and wife, you have a sharing account.

00:35:37 Then you can have two of two, and again, an example is husband and wife, you have a saving account and you need both of your signatures

00:35:44 to access that. So Right. Again,

00:35:48 one of you, if if you fight or something and you go your separate ways,

00:35:52 none of you can take the Bitcoin.

00:35:54 Need to Then agree on

00:35:57 you have the usual, the most typical one, the two of three.

00:36:01 Right. And and then we can equate that another nice example is the parent savings accounts for a child.

00:36:08 Okay. So you

00:36:09 have a key as a father, the mother has a key and the child has a key.

00:36:14 So then the two parents together they need to come together to move the money

00:36:20 or the child needs to agree with one of the parents to move the money. Right.

McIntosh:00:36:27 Not to be morbid but any person

00:36:30 that trio could pass away

00:36:34 and the money could still be moved.

Kenshin:00:36:36 Correct.

McIntosh:00:36:37 Let’s say they kept the password in their head, which is not recommended but and it was not written down or whatever.

00:36:43 It that money would still be movable.

Kenshin:00:36:46 Yeah. And if someone steals it or the key the child lose the key or whatever. Yeah. Exactly. They cannot so let’s say

McIntosh:00:36:55 let’s say junior wrote the password down

00:36:58 because he’s 12 years old and doesn’t know any better and sticks it on his monitor

00:37:04 and a thief breaks in and grabs it because he knows what a seed phrase is.

00:37:09 That thief cannot take that single

00:37:12 signature

00:37:14 and move Bitcoin with it.

Kenshin:00:37:16 Correct.

McIntosh:00:37:19 You see the inbuilt security in this system.

00:37:23 So you’re trading

00:37:25 simplicity

00:37:26 for safety.

00:37:29 Does that make sense?

00:37:31 Clearly,

00:37:32 a single signature system is easier

00:37:36 and cheaper for that matter typically,

00:37:38 but

00:37:39 a multisig system is by design

00:37:43 safer,

00:37:45 less prone to I mean, you’d have to lose two out of three keys

00:37:51 Correct.

00:37:52 Somehow.

00:37:53 And by the way, and this is something you need to think about. Let’s say it was in that exact situation.

00:37:59 You’ve got two parents and one child,

00:38:02 but we throw all three signatures in the same safe or in the same drawer.

00:38:08 Yeah. That’s You just

00:38:10 defeated

00:38:12 your security.

00:38:13 Right?

00:38:14 Because if something happens to those keys altogether

00:38:18 then you’re

00:38:20 you’re you’re done.

00:38:22 Yeah. As part of this you need to consider that and most likely

00:38:27 spread those keys out

00:38:30 even just a little bit geographically.

Kenshin:00:38:34 Yeah. Then you have there is a term for it, which I don’t remember exactly, the

00:38:41 geographically

00:38:42 distributed

00:38:42 multisigs,

00:38:44 as you said.

00:38:46 So, yes, you need to separate them. And many times people separate them even to different

00:38:53 countries.

00:38:54 The Yes. Jurisdiction

00:38:56 is even

00:38:58 different, let’s say.

McIntosh:00:39:00 If I had $10,000,000

00:39:02 worth of bitcoin or a $100,000,000,

00:39:04 I would not have it all in the same county in The United States. I would not have it all in the same state in The United States.

00:39:11 I might not even have it in the same country.

00:39:14 Yeah. Mean,

00:39:16 just

00:39:16 being that paranoid.

00:39:18 We do have more examples that we’re going to include a link to. It’s in the Bitcoin Wiki.

00:39:24 Okay? So keys can live on different devices. They could be at different locations.

00:39:28 They could belong to different

00:39:30 people.

00:39:32 But in the end,

00:39:34 who’s controlling all of this?

00:39:36 Bitcoin.

00:39:37 Bitcoin is the one that sets the rules.

00:39:42 Not

00:39:43 Coinbase.

00:39:44 Not not even the parents. I mean, they’re they’re they’re operating within the rules of Bitcoin.

00:39:49 But in the end, it’s Bitcoin, the protocol that’s actually

00:39:52 enforcing

00:39:53 that.

Kenshin:00:39:54 Right? Mhmm. Yeah. Okay.

McIntosh:00:39:58 Bitcoin,

00:39:59 multisig, been around for a long time. I’m not actually sure how long. Do you know?

Kenshin:00:40:05 No.

00:40:06 But I think quite a while because it was used,

00:40:10 for escrows

00:40:11 and exchanges and stuff. So

McIntosh:00:40:15 I’m gonna find out.

Kenshin:00:40:17 Probably all the way back to BIP 11. Dang.

McIntosh:00:40:22 Was a long time ago. Early twenty twenty any early

00:40:26 twenty twelve.

00:40:28 BIP 11, BIP 16,

00:40:31 I’ve seen two different things but very early on.

00:40:35 That’s

00:40:36 crazy it’s been around that long. I did not know that.

00:40:40 So right.

00:40:41 Exchanges certainly use these. This is how your coins are protected

00:40:46 on an exchange. It’s how they should be.

00:40:50 So Yeah. You will hear

00:40:53 one thing we should introduce,

00:40:55 and we’ve discussed this in the past, but just for terminology

00:40:59 sake.

00:41:01 There is

00:41:03 a terminology of a hot wallet and a cold wallet.

00:41:07 Okay?

00:41:09 Hot wallet is

00:41:11 something that’s on my phone.

00:41:14 It’s available anytime. It’s gonna be a single signature setup.

00:41:18 There’s no way that it can be more complicated than that.

00:41:22 Maybe it’s Basically

Kenshin:00:41:24 it’s connected to the Internet.

00:41:26 Yes. It’s connected to Internet. Also.

00:41:28 Yeah. But it’s connected to the Internet.

McIntosh:00:41:32 I’m gonna argue with you about that. I don’t know. Maybe, but

00:41:37 in the sense that it had well,

00:41:41 I’m not okay. Sorry.

00:41:44 I don’t know.

00:41:45 I don’t know. Yes. It’s connected to the Internet and that’s one I I believe that being multisig kinda obviates that. It it

00:41:55 means it’s not true.

00:41:57 I’m not sure. I

Kenshin:00:41:59 mean, you can have I think the blue wallets has a multisig function. It’s still considered a hot wallet. It’s connected to the Internet.

00:42:07 Someone could hack your phone and and steal all the three keys from it. Why not?

00:42:13 But with a

McIntosh:00:42:16 it’s Coinbase, for example. The vast majority of their money and they have a lot is stored offline. It’s not connected to the Internet. It’s in cold storage.

00:42:26 And it’s also I’m sure multisig.

Kenshin:00:42:29 Yeah.

00:42:30 You can also have cold storage with one one signature.

McIntosh:00:42:34 You could.

00:42:36 Would hope that they were smart enough not to do that.

00:42:40 I don’t have any assets on Coinbase so

00:42:43 it doesn’t matter.

00:42:45 So

00:42:47 multisig has been around for a long time. It’s not some bolt on that was just added recently.

00:42:53 And you you can trust

00:42:55 the things that are built with it.

00:42:58 Does that make sense? Mhmm. Like if if I’ve got a multisig setup, that’s going to be more secure than a single sig setup.

00:43:06 Mhmm.

00:43:09 Alright. So

00:43:11 just to

00:43:12 maybe reiterate some of this, but what is multisig protecting you from? Single device theft. Not a problem. Hey,

00:43:21 dude. I want your wallet and your hardware wallet because I’m a smart criminal and I know that’s a Bitcoin wallet.

00:43:28 Here. Okay.

00:43:30 Too bad you’ll find out later you can’t do anything with that.

00:43:33 Yep. Sucker.

00:43:36 Okay.

00:43:37 Single seed exposure,

Kenshin:00:43:39 same thing really. Right? Oh. Oh. Oh. I I can I can give a nice

McIntosh:00:43:45 tip there? Yeah.

Kenshin:00:43:47 Yeah. You have a single you

00:43:49 have one of the devices. Right? Mhmm. That the the thief takes from you.

00:43:55 You can use that one key as its own wallet as well.

00:43:59 So you could place

00:44:01 some

00:44:02 Bitcoin in there and say here keep them from, like, coming back at you again later? Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, here it is. You took it. You you put it on a you use the key, and you see there is some Bitcoin.

00:44:15 That’s all I thousand sats in there or something. Yeah. Yeah. Or a little bit more to make it more realistic but yeah. You got me. There Sats it

McIntosh:00:44:24 are gonna be worth a dollar one day. I am not giving them that much.

00:44:28 Maybe

00:44:30 not a dollar.

00:44:31 I do hope for 1¢. 1¢ sat is

00:44:37 is it 10,000,000? No.

00:44:45 Because there’s a 100 sats to a dollar.

Kenshin:00:44:48100

00:44:49 to dollar.

00:44:51 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 10,000,000.

McIntosh:00:44:54 Okay. I’ll cut that out too because that’s just ridiculous.

00:44:59 Okay.

00:45:01 It it same thing. It’s going to it’s

00:45:05 going to protect you from, you know, your seed,

00:45:08 a single seed being exposed.

00:45:11 Oh, I left it out on my counter and the maid came through and cleaned up.

00:45:17 Okay. They still can’t do anything.

00:45:20 Malware.

00:45:21 One

00:45:24 of these days, I’m gonna make this prediction, one of these days,

00:45:27 one of these hardware signers,

00:45:29 cold card,

00:45:31 most likely,

00:45:32 one of the Ledger,

00:45:35 Trezor most likely one of those two. They’re going to be compromised with malware.

00:45:41 Okay? It will happen.

00:45:45 A

00:45:46 multisig

00:45:46 setup protects

00:45:48 that

00:45:49 problem.

00:45:51 You do not have to trust

00:45:53 ledger,

00:45:54 treasurer,

00:45:55 seed signer,

00:45:56 jade, whomever. I’m sure I’m not remembering

00:46:0120 of them.

Kenshin:00:46:03 Right. But okay. But now we’re assuming that let’s say you have a three out of five multi six so you

00:46:11 and those three devices

00:46:14 or well,

00:46:15 three out of five is a lot. Let’s say two out of three.

00:46:18 Right. So you have three unique devices.

00:46:21 So you have one treasury, you have one ledger, you have one cold card, and one of them gets compromised

00:46:27 by malware.

00:46:30 Otherwise, if you have three of the same

00:46:32 manufacturers,

00:46:33 then all three get compromised.

McIntosh:00:46:35 Now

00:46:36 here’s a thought.

00:46:38 I don’t wanna test this, but if,

00:46:41 for example, I had

00:46:43 let’s say I had three cold cards. I’ll pick on them

00:46:46 and cold card I’m gets

00:46:50 not a big fan. I’m just I’m being honest. I know that they’re not a sponsor of this show and they never will be so it doesn’t matter.

00:47:00 Let’s say they get malware,

00:47:04 can I tape my seed phrases and move them somewhere else

00:47:08 without ever even opening up those three devices?

Kenshin:00:47:12 Yes.

McIntosh:00:47:14 Okay.

00:47:15 Good.

00:47:16 I thought so.

00:47:18 Right?

00:47:22 I think so. Yeah. Something to think about. Yeah. I haven’t I think so. It did yeah. Yeah. It is possible. I know with the seed cider you could because it follows a BIP standard. I mean, I can’t guarantee that for treasurer or whomever.

00:47:36 But if it follows the BIP standards for seed phrases, whether that’s 12 or 24,

00:47:42 and the password, which I don’t know where that comes from, but it’s defined in a BIP standard.

00:47:47 As long as it follows those, I can just take what I’ve got which is really just a series of words and plug them into that.

00:47:56 Yeah. It’s that simple. It

00:47:58 is. When I do this I will probably do three seed signers.

00:48:03 Screw it. That’s what I’m doing. And oh, one other thing while I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have said that. I apologize. I’ll cut that out.

00:48:11 I shouldn’t say that. But one other thing while I’m thinking about it. Can you not mix in software as well? Can I run

00:48:21 the blue wallet?

00:48:23 Does blue wallet run on a desktop? I believe it does.

00:48:27 Right?

Kenshin:00:48:28 I don’t know. No?

McIntosh:00:48:30 I don’t know. Okay. Let’s just say I’m gonna run one as a desktop wallet. It doesn’t matter who makes Sure. Sparrow. I don’t know this off top of my head. Sparrow. I can do that and mix that with two hardware devices. Right?

00:48:43 Yeah. I mean, again, it’s it’s

00:48:46 it’s all boils down to the Bitcoin protocol that drives all this. Right? It’s just a series of words

00:48:54 and passwords.

00:48:55 Alright.

00:48:57 Where are we at?

00:48:59 Yeah. One bad decision under stress.

00:49:05 It takes you longer to do a multisync

00:49:08 setup, I guess, and you have to bring in more people. So one bad person’s one person’s bad decision.

00:49:15 And and some coercion

00:49:17 scenarios.

00:49:18 If somebody comes and threatens me and I have my my wallets geographically

00:49:24 distributed,

00:49:26 even if I control all three of them,

00:49:30 A person who’s trying to get money from me is not going to

00:49:35 what are they gonna do? Ride in the car with me as I go from site to site?

00:49:40 There’s

00:49:41 too much chance of

00:49:43 a problem

00:49:45 on their end.

00:49:46 Does that make It’s

00:49:48 too hard.

00:49:49 You’re making it more difficult for them.

Kenshin:00:49:52 Yeah. And I have also thought like you can give it to a family member in another as you said state or country or whatever. So one key they can have and you

00:50:04 since it’s a multi sig, they cannot do anything with it. And then you can tell them if I ever call you

00:50:11 on a day that is not a Thursday

00:50:14 at 9PM,

00:50:15 then you know

McIntosh:00:50:17 I’m in trouble, let’s say. What if it’s somebody I never call? If I ever call you, you know I’m in trouble.

00:50:24 Exact

Kenshin:00:50:25 Yeah. But about the Bitcoin related

00:50:28 thing. So it’s like, I will only call you for the Bitcoin key on a Thursday night. Any other day,

McIntosh:00:50:34 you call the police. Consider me compromised and act accordingly.

00:50:38 Like, call the police and stall

00:50:41 and whatever.

00:50:42 Alright. I love this line, multisync

00:50:44 adds friction where you want friction. Yes. It is definitely more difficult

00:50:49 but it is worth it because

00:50:52 when it works,

00:50:54 it’s a beautiful thing.

00:50:56 Alright.

00:50:58 What are some of the realities of this? You can still lose too many keys. In a two out of three setup, just to make this simple, yes, you can lose two keys and not be able to move that money.

00:51:09 Okay? Bad backups. I mean, if you have the keys, you can you don’t need backups, but

00:51:16 you don’t lose your backups.

00:51:19 Ove engineering.

00:51:21 Maybe making it too complicated. You do not need a seven of nine

00:51:25 backup strategy

00:51:28 unless

00:51:29 you’re a

00:51:30 multinational

00:51:31 corporation

00:51:32 maybe. I don’t know. Not testing recovery.

Kenshin:00:51:35 Go ahead. There there was a popular Bitcoiner

00:51:38 on Twitter

00:51:40 some years ago that’s What does this mean? I

00:51:43 don’t remember. That messed up their multisig

00:51:47 setup. Made it too complex and

00:51:51 someone did it. Anyway yeah. But it happens to you and me. Yeah? Yeah.

McIntosh:00:51:56 It does happen. Look.

00:51:58 I doubt anybody whoever listens to this is gonna need more than two or three.

00:52:03 Right. That’s just a reality. Reality. If you do, that’s you,

00:52:07 that’s terrific, but you are building a more complex system and you need to be careful about that. You also need to and we’re not really gonna talk about inheritance here, but it is something to think about. Poor inheritance planning. What happens when you die

00:52:22 and when you add more keys to the mix and they’re spread them out among other people, well then you you have to manage that as well.

Kenshin:00:52:30 Okay? Mhmm. Yep.

McIntosh:00:52:33 It doesn’t replace discipline.

00:52:35 It doesn’t replace education.

00:52:37 It doesn’t fix laziness. You need to know what you’re doing.

00:52:42 Yeah. If you’re new to this, probably go back and listen to this again.

00:52:46 I would certainly take the time to do this with a very small amount of Bitcoin.

00:52:52 Not only adding it to your service but, and I brought this up earlier,

00:52:57 one of us did, doing a restore.

00:53:01 Do a restore of your coin.

00:53:05 Make sure you can get access to it,

00:53:08 not just put it there.

Kenshin:00:53:12 Right.

McIntosh:00:53:16 Alright.

00:53:20 Yeah. Just to kinda go along with that, I don’t wanna spend a whole lot of time on that.

00:53:25 Your setup

00:53:27 needs to match

00:53:28 your risk profile.

00:53:30 Again,

00:53:3299% of the people that listen to this are they’re just never gonna have to deal with anything more than maybe a two or three.

00:53:39 You know? I I very likely see ten years from now, like I said, even if you only have say a tenth of a Bitcoin,

00:53:48 the value of that Bitcoin ten years from now will be much much higher and you need to plan for that. And you need to plan for that now

00:53:56 because when you lose it,

00:53:59 that

00:54:01 potential growth is lost.

00:54:05 Because

00:54:06 the reality is

00:54:08 three years from now if you lose a tenth of a Bitcoin,

00:54:12 you’re not gonna go out and buy another tenth of a Bitcoin immediately.

00:54:17 That’s just not gonna happen.

00:54:20 And

00:54:21 it it’ll just be gone

00:54:23 and you’ll never gain

00:54:25 that.

00:54:26 I don’t know. What happens if ten years from now it’s a million dollar bitcoin? That means it’s a $100,000.

00:54:36 Crazy.

Kenshin:00:54:38 Yeah.

McIntosh:00:54:41 Alright.

Kenshin:00:54:43 Yeah.

00:54:44 Right.

00:54:46 So in general,

00:54:48 who is

00:54:49 multisig,

00:54:51 good for?

00:54:53 And you mentioned it,

00:54:55 a lot. You said, yeah, for people who care about the future. Right? So

00:55:00 it’s for us who look long term,

00:55:03 and it’s also for people thinking about planning

00:55:07 for their inheritance.

00:55:11 And in general, if if you’re serious about Bitcoin, I would say, it’s

00:55:15 as you said, a tenth of a Bitcoin and even less will be significant

00:55:21 one day.

00:55:23 It’s also good for businesses.

00:55:25 I mean,

00:55:27 having a business and having a three out of five in that case, that’s very popular for a business.

00:55:34 And even bigger businesses might have more complex setups.

00:55:39 And there are some smart ways to to manage the

00:55:42 the signatures. I mean, you can give a signature to a newly appointed

00:55:48 employee.

00:55:49 Mhmm. And then you cancel that signature when they leave the company, then you make another one. You know, it can be dynamic too. So for companies, it’s very good.

McIntosh:00:55:57 So you can swap out keys in a multisig setup?

Kenshin:00:56:01 Yeah.

00:56:02 It’s more complex.

00:56:03 Yeah. But it’s quite complex.

McIntosh:00:56:05 Mhmm.

Kenshin:00:56:07 So you I think you need a special software to do all this.

McIntosh:00:56:10 Okay.

00:56:12 Well, it’s definitely something if you’re thinking about doing, you need to test.

00:56:16 Okay. Yeah.

Kenshin:00:56:19 Exactly.

00:56:20 So

00:56:21 it’s good for

00:56:23 all of those people and

00:56:27 yeah. And it’s probably not needed if you if you just want to experiment with Bitcoin with small amounts

00:56:34 and

00:56:35 and you just want to do a purchase here and there or

00:56:38 or if it’s you can use a Lightning Wallet, for example, to do,

00:56:44 like, Noster

00:56:46 transactions or or on Fountain to boost us or something.

00:56:50 Yes, please.

00:56:51 Yeah. It it’s for for exactly.

00:56:54 For spending SATs, I would say, for easily

00:56:58 everyday spending SATs, Multisig is overkill.

00:57:01 So you can split it up that your Multisig is like your your

00:57:06 long term savings account

00:57:08 and then you have a normal hot wallet that you just keep a small amount there for your everyday spending needs.

00:57:19 Yeah.

00:57:20 But, otherwise,

00:57:23 that’s,

00:57:25 yeah, that’s it. That’s the basics.

00:57:27 Yeah. And then you can

00:57:29 usual

00:57:30 usually, yeah, mix

00:57:32 setups.

00:57:33 Right. As I said, you can have a

00:57:36 savings

00:57:37 account as a Modisig.

00:57:40 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what I said already. It’s the same thing there. Sorry.

McIntosh:00:57:46 Like to view this almost as a checking account versus a savings account. And a multisig

00:57:53 is my vault that I’ve got to go to

00:57:59 specifically

00:58:00 and do

00:58:01 specific actions in order to access. It’s like you go to the vault and three people put their keys in and turn at the same time, spin

00:58:10 the knob or whatever, and now you’ve got access to the vault.

00:58:13 I’m not gonna carry that around on my phone. That doesn’t make sense.

00:58:19 Maybe a signing key on the phone, I guess,

00:58:23 But my hot what? I would be concerned about that because it is a pain to replace a key or to build out a new set or whatever.

00:58:32 Why

00:58:33 even

00:58:35 do that? I’m gonna have a checking account

00:58:38 where I

00:58:40 I can just spend out of. That’s my lightning wallet essentially.

00:58:44 Is that a fair analogy?

00:58:46 I mean Yeah.

00:58:48 Other people may do different things. I don’t know. That’s just kind of the way I think about it. Bitcoin is for spending by the way. Don’t listen to the haters.

00:58:56 It’s also for savings

00:58:59 but and it should be both. Yeah.

00:59:02 But you

00:59:03 know,

00:59:04 yeah. Anyways.

00:59:07 Moving right along.

Kenshin:00:59:09 And some of the best practices

00:59:11 for

00:59:13 storing those keys as we mentioned it now a few times, Separate the keys geographically

00:59:18 if possible,

00:59:20 but don’t make it too hard either.

00:59:22 I mean, you need to put the key somewhere you can trust and that you find it again or

McIntosh:00:59:28 one else finds it. I need a reason to go to Sweden. Will you be my Right. Three of five

00:59:35 whatever?

00:59:35 I don’t know. Yeah. Exactly.

Kenshin:00:59:38 Anyways

00:59:39 And then we

00:59:40 also talked about avoiding a single vendor

00:59:44 wallet manufacturer. And

McIntosh:00:59:49 then also don’t store the key with the device. So if you have a hardware we mean keys, by the way. Yeah. I mean, is your backup.

00:59:59 It’s not like it’s a a balance of the account or something.

01:00:03 It is literally the 12 or 24 words

01:00:07 and associated password if you do that.

Kenshin:01:00:10 Yeah. So ideally, you have a sign a sign in device.

01:00:14 One of those devices you store somewhere safe,

01:00:17 and then you have the the seed phrase for that device

01:00:20 stored in another location

01:00:23 as a backup.

01:00:25 So if if that device gets compromised or

01:00:29 or not even compromised, then you don’t want to use the key. But if it gets broken or something,

01:00:35 then you can restore that that device.

01:00:39 You said it many times, you need to test the recovery

01:00:43 before

01:00:44 committing to that setup,

01:00:47 and you need to document

01:00:49 the setup in in a way that,

01:00:52 yeah, if something happens to you, your family can

01:00:56 can take the Bitcoin and and use it.

McIntosh:01:00:59 And be careful about that documentation,

01:01:02 ladies and gentlemen.

01:01:03 Do not put your seed words in that documentation.

Kenshin:01:01:08 Right.

McIntosh:01:01:09 Because most likely, you’re writing it online for one thing or on a computer that’s connected online.

01:01:16 So there’s potentials there that we just wanna eliminate anyways,

01:01:21 but it’s not it’s just not a smart thing to have that seed phrase right there. Oh, plug in this 12 word seed phrase.

01:01:32 That

01:01:34 would be separate.

01:01:36 Just my 2¢.

01:01:37 I’m just

01:01:38 gonna throw that out there.

Kenshin:01:01:41 Yeah. And before we close this up, I would say there is an alternative

01:01:47 to multisig

01:01:48 that is very, very similar.

01:01:52 And some some Shamir secret sharing,

01:01:55 essentially,

01:01:56 you cut a single key into pieces, as many pieces as you want,

01:02:01 and you need a certain amount of pieces. Again, you can cut it in five pieces,

01:02:06 and you tell

01:02:08 the system that you need three out of the five pieces

01:02:11 to

01:02:12 restore

01:02:13 the signature.

01:02:15 So essentially it’s the same and I know systems that you can actually engrave those pieces into steel

01:02:22 with a QR code.

01:02:25 Is this what is it called? The

01:02:28 not the seed signer.

01:02:31 Anyway, there is a really nice device engraver.

McIntosh:01:02:34 Right. That it engraves in metal like you’re I wonder if they can sponsor the show. Sorry.

01:02:41 Yeah.

01:02:42 That sounds very cool.

Kenshin:01:02:45 Yeah. Then it’s easy to scan those pieces and restore the key and you use it like a normal signature. So that’s also cool. But that we can go into more in-depth how to do this. And I know a friend of mine has done it, and

01:02:58 they even store a backup into a DVD.

01:03:01 So they burn also the

01:03:03 that that key that piece of the key in the DVD. So it’s it’s some cool setups that we can discuss in a more advanced episode.

01:03:13 So that’s Okay. Well,

McIntosh:01:03:15 let’s wrap this up.

01:03:17 We need to

01:03:18 we need to realize a couple things. Bitcoin is going to give you absolute responsibility.

01:03:23 If you accept it and you take your money off of Coinbase

01:03:28 or Kraken

01:03:29 or

01:03:30 someplace like that.

01:03:32 It is now your responsibility

01:03:33 and that weighs heavy on some people. It should not, but it does.

01:03:39 Multisig

01:03:40 is

01:03:42 the only way I’m aware of with

01:03:45 Bitcoin

01:03:46 to do well, other than what you just described,

01:03:49 which is technically not multisig.

01:03:52 I’ll say that.

01:03:53 But multisig distributes that responsibility

01:03:56 safely.

01:03:57 We’re not talking the goal isn’t perfect security. That’s almost impossible.

01:04:02 But the goal is resilience.

01:04:06 It’s taking the most common use cases of people losing their keys and eliminating that as a point of failure. You know, this

01:04:15 multisix setup eliminates

01:04:17 so many issues when you actually sit down and think about it.

01:04:23 Okay.

01:04:24 Hey. I I wanna change something on the fly here. I’m actually gonna do two questions of the week. Is that okay? I’m gonna do the one we’ve got, but I have a new one.

01:04:33 I hesitate to do this, but I feel like we probably need to ask.

01:04:39 Are you running multisig for your Bitcoin? So first of all, that’s the one about our topic today like we normally do. If so, watch your setup

01:04:47 as much as you’re willing to share.

01:04:49 If you wanna send your seed phrases to me, don’t do that.

01:04:53 If not, why not?

01:04:56 Okay? So that’s the that’s our normal question. I wanna ask a second one. I know we talk about AI a lot on here. It is a large part of Kenshin and I’s personal

01:05:06 lives at this point. I don’t actually see that changing anytime soon.

01:05:11 And I I joke about it, but I’m not trying to turn this into an AI podcast.

01:05:17 I wanna make I wanna be respectful.

01:05:19 We can shorten these conversations

01:05:21 up about our AI stuff if you guys would like. If you’re just like, no, Bitcoin only. I don’t know. Whatever.

01:05:30 Please let us know. Is that a fair question, Kenshin?

01:05:33 I don’t really wanna hear the answer because I’m afraid by and large people don’t want to know.

01:05:41 But

01:05:42 I also wanna be respectful.

01:05:44 Is that fair? I I think that is.

01:05:47 So let’s find out.

01:05:49 If you really don’t want it, then we’ll shorten that up because I know that segment

01:05:53 these days at least and we are aware of this. It’s kinda gotten a little long and I I do wanna

01:05:59 we are gonna try and tighten it up a little bit. But man, there’s just so much going on. Anyways, again, not an AI podcast. We’re not gonna start off into that.

01:06:09 Alright. Let’s talk about some news.

01:06:12 Maybe the number one topic for the week.

01:06:15 It is number one on our list.

01:06:18 Maybe number one in our heart our hearts. We’re also not a silver podcast,

01:06:22 by the way. I

01:06:25 wanna talk about this though because

01:06:27 I believe

01:06:28 this is indicative

01:06:30 of the overall macro

01:06:32 market and I do.

01:06:34 This is important to me. Okay? Because it does ultimately affect Bitcoin. We know that Bitcoin’s down.

01:06:41 I believe this is one of the reasons.

01:06:45 So let’s dive into this. Fox News had an article,

01:06:49 Friday basically

01:06:50 silver took a huge dump and like 30%.

01:06:54 It was insane.

01:06:55 It bounced back. It’s dropped again,

01:06:58 bounced back and today’s been kind of up but it’s I mean it’s just all over the place.

01:07:05 Like a meme coin. Like a meme coin, exactly. Was just fixing to say that. That’s what people are saying, it’s like a meme coin, I’m like this is silver.

01:07:14 Anyways,

01:07:16 apparently,

01:07:16 according to this article, and this somewhat makes sense, and I’m just gonna read the kind of the opening paragraph

01:07:22 because this summarizes the whole thing nicely.

01:07:26 A single announcement out of Washington sent gold and silver prices plunging, erasing billions

01:07:31 erasing billions of dollars in market value, catching investors off guard almost overnight.

01:07:38 Friday morning,

01:07:41 president Trump confirmed

01:07:43 Kevin Wash, I hope I’m saying his name right, w a r s h, as his pick to lead the Federal Reserve,

01:07:50 which should happen I believe in May

01:07:52 when Jerome Powell steps down.

01:07:55 Okay?

01:07:56 Sending the dollar to its strongest level in months and reshaping expectations

01:08:01 for US monetary policy.

01:08:05 Wash is widely viewed as a free market inflation hawk who breaks with much of the current Federal Reserve leadership.

01:08:13 This to me is the important part. Influenced by his studies under economist Milton Friedman,

01:08:19 who from what I can tell is somebody that I align with a lot. Now, I haven’t read everything that Friedman said.

01:08:27 I’m sure there’s lots of stuff we would disagree on.

01:08:30 But in modern economic

01:08:32 history, he’s one of the few people I actually align with, if that makes sense. He’s long argued that inflation is driven by printing too much money.

01:08:43 Okay?

01:08:44 And so that sent the market into a dizzy a tizzy,

01:08:50 you know,

01:08:51 silver was already very much overhyped at that point. I was already saying

01:08:56 it’s probably gonna have a drawback. Now, I didn’t see it going from one twenty to

01:09:0170 or something

01:09:03 crazy

01:09:05 like that. But it it literally was 30% in one day at one point.

01:09:11 But it comes from this, but I don’t

01:09:15 do I believe that Kevin Walsh is his top pick? Yes. Do I believe that he most likely will become the next Fed chair?

01:09:23 Most likely.

01:09:24 Do I believe that

01:09:26 that Kevin Wash after Trump has said for months and months and months and months, inflation down, inflation down, not inflation, interest rates

01:09:36 because of our federal deficit,

01:09:39 because of the debt that is coming due,

01:09:42 and because of the fact that midterms are coming up, I believe that he’s gonna pressure Kevin Walsh,

01:09:49 cut interest rates, cut look, you’re my man. I put you in here. You do what I say because that’s what Trump does.

01:09:57 Okay? I think we can all admit that even if you’re a Trump

01:10:00 fanboy.

01:10:02 Okay?

01:10:04 And then I also think the money printing still gonna happen. So in the long run, we’re gonna see the same thing play out. I just don’t think this changes anything

01:10:12 in the long run. I think it changed things

01:10:15 Friday

01:10:16 until whatever time that they get all this sorted out and everybody figures out. You know what? That guy is not really gonna do anything.

01:10:24 That’s just my thoughts.

Kenshin:01:10:27 That that that guy,

01:10:28 I only heard one clip of him and he sounds like a Wall Street dude.

01:10:36 Yeah. He was he was throwing all these Wall Street keywords,

01:10:40 and I don’t even remember those type of words because they’re they’re really like,

01:10:45 oh, you just put a sprinkle of this and and then you invest a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then Yeah. The the interviewer was asking how much Bitcoin allocation should you have. No. Not 5%. 5% is too much, he was saying.

01:10:59 It it was really, like, one of those really

01:11:02 dudes, you know Right. In quotations that talk about how to make the most money with investing in most Interesting. Things.

01:11:10 So for me, it’s really not good news. It sounds another meme coin

01:11:15 So person.

01:11:17 Have been seen again.

McIntosh:01:11:19 In

01:11:20 Austrian economics

01:11:21 up to my eyeballs for

01:11:24 a long time,

01:11:26 for years now at this point. And I’ve not really studied the modern economists,

01:11:32 so I don’t wanna go too far out on a limb. But I will say that Milton Friedman is the only person who I’ve heard any kind of quotes from recently

01:11:41 past

01:11:42 Hayek who was an Austrian economist

01:11:45 that I’ve even somewhat agreed with.

01:11:48 So I think it’s very interesting that he studied under him.

01:11:53 I don’t know about all that. I will have to look into it. But that doesn’t mean anything. I mean, you could have studied

Kenshin:01:12:00 so it’s not Milton Friedman. It’s

01:12:03 I don’t I don’t think it matters under who he studied. It matters who he is. And the way he was talking it’s it’s really become a casino.

McIntosh:01:12:12 I also think it matters if he will stand up to Trump because this is 100%

01:12:17 opposed

01:12:18 to what Trump has been saying

01:12:21 for two years.

01:12:23 Well, however well, more than that really, but yeah.

01:12:26 Right?

Kenshin:01:12:28 Honestly,

01:12:29 I’m tired of of American politics. I I know. It’s it’s

01:12:33 just too much nonsense.

01:12:36 And Trump I’m sorry. But Trump, I just heard this quote last week saying, I can do the

01:12:43 the dollar go up or down like a yo yo. Exactly.

McIntosh:01:12:47 That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Trump feels like he can control the dollar.

01:12:53 So are you telling me he’s gonna put somebody in there that he doesn’t have his thumb on that he can’t control after all the goings on with Powell? You’re exactly that’s exactly what I’m talking about.

01:13:06 I’m just extending that on out.

01:13:08 It doesn’t matter what Warsh says when he talks. It matters what he does. Will he drop the interest rates? Will he allow the money printing to occur? Yes. I believe he will. Does that mean that silver and gold will go up? I believe it does. I don’t think this is done yet.

01:13:26 That’s my contention.

Kenshin:01:13:27 But every single announcement

01:13:30 the the US government has done in the past year has Yes. Crushed the markets.

01:13:35 So glad you brought that up. Yeah. I don’t think they have anything.

McIntosh:01:13:39 I think that’s a symptom of the weakness of the market. The fact that any statement that any politician

01:13:46 or someone somewhat aligned with that says

01:13:50 spooks the market,

01:13:51 at least temporarily,

01:13:53 that is a sign of weakness.

01:13:55 Yeah. Makes sense. And I think as we go further and further into this, that will become

01:14:01 look.

01:14:04 When when

01:14:06 the,

01:14:07 when the German,

01:14:09 mark

01:14:10 post World War one went into the toilet, the Weimar Republic as everyone calls it. Right? All the money money printing. Their market

01:14:20 was crazy.

01:14:21 Like it would up down up down up down up down. Like it was this

01:14:25 the

01:14:26 the stock market which operated during that entire time period, it was insane.

01:14:31 People became rich because they managed to catch the right things.

01:14:36 But you know,

01:14:37 but there was so much back. It’s it it

01:14:41 we’re not to that level

01:14:43 but it does remind me of that and I I don’t know. Maybe I’m going out on limb. Alright. We need to move on.

01:14:50 Kenshin hates The US.

Kenshin:01:14:53 Yeah.

McIntosh:01:14:54 Silver’s going up.

01:14:57 Yeah. I think that covers it.

Kenshin:01:15:00 Yes.

McIntosh:01:15:02 I may be wrong. I

Kenshin:01:15:04 I have I know you don’t like this. I I I’m really upset with US. That that is true for many reasons the last few years, and and this doesn’t help.

01:15:14 But, yeah, I remember we said at the beginning of of of this government, we said, is it better to have an anti Bitcoin,

01:15:23 US Government,

01:15:24 or

01:15:25 a meme coin?

McIntosh:01:15:27 US government. And right now think it depends on on how long

01:15:32 what anti Bitcoin means. If they wanna make it illegal,

01:15:36 Bitcoin is going to continue, but it would hurt.

Kenshin:01:15:39 It would definitely hurt. Yeah. But now we’re we’re we’re going up and down like the the stock market so Yeah. We’re

McIntosh:01:15:47 not done separating from Fiat. We’re just not. No.

Kenshin:01:15:51 It’s And that’s okay. Feel more attached than ever to Fiat because Maybe.

McIntosh:01:15:56 Because of the attachment now to Wall Street.

01:15:59 Yeah. I agree. So that’s what I don’t like. Alright. We got a few more things. In case you didn’t know, the government the US government,

01:16:07 Kenshin’s favorite,

01:16:08 seized $400,000,000

01:16:11 in Bitcoin linked to what’s called the Helix Mixer.

01:16:15 Yeah.

01:16:16 It’s a dark net mixer.

01:16:19 That’s

01:16:20 the details I got. It’s not a whole lot. It was in Bitcoin Magazine. There was an article about it.

Kenshin:01:16:26 Yeah. I I saw that they

01:16:29 they were threatening that guy

01:16:32 who made that mixer for twenty years in prison and then

01:16:36 he pleaded guilty and so

01:16:39 yeah. He gave it up and settled for, like, three years or something.

McIntosh:01:16:43 But but they took all his Bitcoin.

Kenshin:01:16:46 Yeah. So I think they just got to him with So

McIntosh:01:16:49 this is a problem with a strategic Bitcoin reserve that can be

01:16:55 built

01:16:56 by

01:16:58 seizures,

01:16:59 by criminal what they would call criminal seizures.

01:17:02 I don’t know this case. I’m not I don’t know but

01:17:06 you know they’ve

01:17:08 put him in jail

01:17:10 and now they’ve

01:17:13 got his Bitcoin.

01:17:15 A lot of it $400,000,000

Kenshin:01:17:17 worth. Yeah. It’s crazy.

McIntosh:01:17:20 Look, ladies and gentlemen, in case I’ve not said it enough,

01:17:24 there’s not enough privacy built into Bitcoin.

01:17:27 And it’s not just for people like this. It’s for you and me as well.

01:17:32 That is one of the biggest weaknesses of Bitcoin in my opinion.

01:17:37 They arrest I thought this was interesting.

01:17:40 And maybe this is because of the recent change in government in Venezuela because of The United States, but an Argentine crypto fugitive was arrested in Venezuela with $56,000,000

01:17:51 in Bitcoin. So this kinda goes back to the case we just talked about.

01:17:56 But obviously, there was a lot of cooperation here. This person left one country, went to another thinking, I’ll be safe over here.

01:18:04 And turns out they weren’t.

01:18:09 Tennessee lawmakers, do want I like to bring this stuff up because I like to see the states build Bitcoin reserves.

01:18:16 Tennessee is considering a a strategic Bitcoin reserve bill

Kenshin:01:18:21 as well. Considering is the keywords.

McIntosh:01:18:24 Yeah.

01:18:25 Yeah.

01:18:26 How

01:18:27 did that end up in there?

01:18:30 Hold on. I

01:18:32 some of my other stuff ended up in there.

01:18:35 I was talking to Chad GPT, did you read that?

01:18:39 I

01:18:40 did. I asked him if I was crazy.

01:18:42 It told me no.

01:18:46 It’s a grizzly thing. I had to believe it. No, I was talking to it about the Claude

01:18:51 Claude bot. Alright,

01:18:52 Sorry

01:18:54 about that. And then, yeah, let’s skip that last one. I think we’re good to go.

01:19:00 Bitcoin price

01:19:01 as we record.

01:19:03 Not

01:19:05 so good.

Kenshin:01:19:0774,790

01:19:09 USD

01:19:10 and €63,500.

01:19:14 Yeah. I woke up in the morning, it was €66,500.

01:19:18 Just

McIntosh:01:19:19 dropped 3,000 during the day. Yep. So what do we have right now? Cheap sats.

01:19:25 Cheap sats. Go buy some sats.

01:19:28 Yeah. It’s very tempting to just Buy that 1 tenth of a Bitcoin.

01:19:33 Yeah. Financial advice. Don’t do it if you got other things to that you need to buy, ladies and gentlemen, It’s that expression to look between the couch pillows. Right? Anything extra. Any extra chains I

01:19:46 think Kitchen and I both believe that well, know we both believe that there’s a very strong level at 70,000 basically which was the previous all time high.

01:19:56 Yeah. That

01:19:58 historically

01:19:59 has never been broken,

01:20:01 I believe.

01:20:04 Yeah.

01:20:05 At least for a few cycles before that. Let me put it that way before I get myself in trouble.

01:20:11 We have approached that level multiple times.

01:20:15 We’ve never touched it.

01:20:17 We got down to 73 or 71 recently I’m not sure and you’ve got the chart there but

Kenshin:01:20:25 know got down to 73,

01:20:26 yeah.

McIntosh:01:20:27 So far this has proven to be a very strong level. If it breaks this, I don’t know what’s gonna happen but I do know I’m gonna be buying Bitcoin.

01:20:36 I’m not stopping. I’m not stopping my DCA. I love every Sunday when I wake up and look at my thing and it’s like, oh, there’s

01:20:44 x number more Satoshis.

Kenshin:01:20:46 Mhmm.

01:20:48 Yeah. Right now, you’re right. And the DCA is you get more satoshis now every DCA.

01:20:55 It’s more such.

McIntosh:01:20:57 Zoom out like I always say, people.

01:20:59 Price last February 3, in case you wanna know, we might wanna stop doing this. Yes.

01:21:08 No. It was a $101.04 $0.05, meaning we are down 26.25%.

01:21:14 Ladies and gentlemen, if this is the bear market, I laugh at it.

01:21:18 I laugh at it.

Kenshin:01:21:21 Yeah. Remember our previous,

01:21:24 cycle

01:21:26 analysis.

01:21:28 So then

01:21:29 the bottom of this bear cycle bear market should be October.

01:21:34 Yeah. And I’m bit surprised if we can stay in this level.

McIntosh:01:21:39 The further along we get,

01:21:43 the more I believe that this was a four we saw the four year cycle.

01:21:47 We hit the time,

01:21:50 October 6.

01:21:52 Yeah. Did not hit the price.

01:21:55 But that’s what Bitcoin does. It teases you and then it’s like, nope. Not gonna do it.

01:22:01 Yeah.

01:22:04 But it’s

01:22:05 cheap sats. I think cheap sats. That’s my shirt.

01:22:09 Sure. Shirt for the cheap sats.

01:22:11 Apparently, no one wants a shirt that says we are the network.

01:22:15 So I guess we’ll give that up.

01:22:20 If I were a rich bitcoin

01:22:23 person, I’d be like doing all I’d just be like, give me that shirt.

01:22:29 Cheapsats.

01:22:31 Alright.

01:22:32 Bitcoin market cap, 1,500,000,000,000.0

01:22:35 US.

01:22:36 Gold market cap, 34,100,000,000,000.0.

01:22:39 I can’t read that number. You do it.

Kenshin:01:22:42 Bitcoin versus gold market cap. We’re below five at 4.3%.

McIntosh:01:22:48 So depressing. Last

01:22:50 time I saw below five, that was like two years ago or something. We will catch up, ladies and gentlemen. It is only a matter of time and I’m not full of hopium.

Kenshin:01:23:02 It’s the truth. Yeah. But I need to fix that bot as

01:23:08 Mike has suggested us many times. Yeah. I

McIntosh:01:23:13 only have one last thing I wanna talk about. Let’s go ahead and wrap this up because we’re getting long.

01:23:20 Last week,

01:23:21 what did we say? Like 18%

01:23:23 down is what it was looking like? We are four days out from the next difficulty adjustment.

01:23:28 We are still minus 14.42%

01:23:32 if it happened right now.

01:23:34 Meaning

01:23:35 not minors are not online. My minors are online,

01:23:38 but minors are not online

01:23:40 and

01:23:44 I’m okay with that.

Kenshin:01:23:45 We we are 251

01:23:48 blocks behind schedule.

McIntosh:01:23:50 That’s

01:23:52 it. That’s the show. That’s what we got.

01:23:56 Anything else you wanna throw in?

Kenshin:01:23:59 TikTok.

McIntosh:01:24:00 Next block. It still works. It still works. There’s one.

Kenshin:01:24:04 There’s one. There was four in that ten minutes before the show. Just now. We are at block nine three four eight nine six.

McIntosh:01:24:12 You’re gonna confuse the AI. It’s gonna be like, I don’t know which block to use.

01:24:21 Satoshi.

01:24:24 Hey. We’re talking about AI again.

01:24:26 Sutoshi’s Plebs is a value for value podcast supporting podcasting two point o. We strive to bring you honest Bitcoin content

01:24:33 every week. We ask, are you getting value from this show?

01:24:36 If so, please support it through time, talent, or treasure.

01:24:39 Help with further projects,

01:24:41 stream sats, boost with messages,

01:24:43 even a 100 sats saying great show or you suck, we’ll read it either way. Check out the apps at podcastapps.com

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01:24:58 That is the best way for us to grow.

01:25:03 Joe Martin, I hope you appreciate this. This week’s music is empty passenger seat because Macintosh did not change it.

01:25:10 I was too busy working on the news or something. Any boost for streaming of Sats during that song will go straight to the artist.

Kenshin:01:25:18 Yeah. So thanks again for joining us in the AI Plebs podcast this week. You’ll hear you’ll

01:25:29 hear from us again next Thursday morning.

01:25:32 So we hope this has been helpful, and we would appreciate any feedback.

01:25:36 Yep. And if you want to hear more more in-depth analysis and

01:25:42 themes like that.

01:25:45 Yeah. You can leave the feedback on Fountain or on Noster,

01:25:48 and you can also find our contact info at Satoshi’s desk clips dot com. Stay humble, DCA those sites, and have a great weekend.

McIntosh:01:25:56 We’ll talk to y’all soon.

Kenshin:01:25:58 Bye bye.